Discussion about divisive issue - Hijacking. (Poll included)

[drivefast99]

I didn't vote. I think of this more of an agreement than a rule. This was discussed many, many, many, many, many times when the launches were 1st introduced. The general consensus was:

• if you want 1st, you should start your own launch.
  
• if you start a launch, you should have enough resources to make sure it is successful.

It's my game and these are the rules I play by. I think they are reasonable and respectful of others so that will not change unless G! changes the rules of launch.
Lots of other discussion in the archives on if you should pass anyone or stay your place in line, etc. My rule is I will not pass the launcher (unless it's a ql party). If the launcher is in 5th, then I will take 6th. If the launcher is 1st, then I might take 2nd. I don't ask to join a launch, if I see one and don't want 1st, I will join because all I'm doing is helping the launch be successful. I am usually only on in short time spans and don't have time to wait and see if I get a quick answer.

I've never had anyone upset (that I know of) but if you don't like my rules, pm me and ask me to not join - I don't mind leaving you on the launch pad.

 

[drivefast99]

Surely for this to work fairly all forum users should announce their launch in the Forum and make their intentions known

Good in theory but I play on a tablet. I usually read the forum on a laptop. Typing on a tablet is challenging and takes me twice as long. I am in airports, etc. and don't always have quick access to the forum.

 

[gbswales]

Yes you can. The points mechanism doesn't work with a ceiling.

e.g. When you have first with a 'safe' 1600 in, I load up to 1398 and end with a 360 point PEB, I will pass your first and end up with 1758. Thus exceeding the 3000 point mark and hijacking your 'safe' launch as a result.

The points are always added in full and don't necessarily stop at the maximum of 1600, 2000 or 3000. Go figure...

That's why around 1700 is the number for red, unless you settle points and places first with your co-launchers...

Update: I recently finished a red launch with fixed places and points: I got first with little over 600 points (out of 3000!!!) due to generous neighbours... Forum power!

Why should crazy logic like this not suprise me - but it did! That is GI for you! Thinking back this may well be the reason for me hijacking a flight when all I thought I was doing was closing it - I think there was about 200 points needed and the only way I could finish it was by adding a 360 point PEP assuming that the surplus 160 points would just be lost.

 

[Wasted Eagle]

Surely for this to work fairly all forum users should announce their launch in the Forum and make their intentions known (...) From what I have observed only about half the forum launches get posted in the forum

(...) and don't always have quick access to the forum.

Not only that, @drivefast99 .
It all starts with the starter's intentions and the choice of going public or not. Sometimes time or other circumstances call for not posting on the thread. If you have a few neighbours with which you agree to do a launch or several launches in a row (active QLs), agree to points and places and you have the points to fill it up: why post?

 

[Wasted Eagle]

Why should crazy logic like this not suprise me - but it did! That is GI for you! Thinking back this may well be the reason for me hijacking a flight when all I thought I was doing was closing it - I think there was about 200 points needed and the only way I could finish it was by adding a 360 point PEP assuming that the surplus 160 points would just be lost.

Tell me about it. I also found out the hard way...

 

[Captain WH Rollins]

If I open a red launch I'm after first place, because of gold and silver tokens and other flight rewards etc. This is the only way I can obtain tokens and purchase Falcon S1 planes. I make sure of this by the amount of resources I invest into the flight and by my written introduction in the launch thread.

Once I've reached 1700 plus investment level I create and post the launch thread, inviting flyers to join in the flight - 2nd, 3rd, 4th places etc. I can fly solo, if I need to (I always have plenty of resources to hand because of my daily plunder success), but I prefer to fly in good company and share the rewards of the flight. It's the right thing to do and it helps flyers who may have limited resources at their disposal.

If I join in a red launch, a standard 24 hour flight or a QL flight, first place belongs to the flyer who opened the launch, unless the flyer states clearly 'all places are open' or 'all places are up for grabs'. If it's not clear I always ask, just to make sure. I do not want any unpleasantness or bad feelings between forum flyers. I'm more than happy to take a lower placed position e.g. 2nd or 3rd place with these types of flights. In the long run it all adds up to a healthy return.

If the launch is part of the Spaceship Launches: Using Up Smaller Resource Items then I often finish in 4th and 5th place, this is fine with me, since the flight is about using up small surplus resources collectively and not about the final position as such.

The one thing I would never, ever do is hi-jack another flyers flight. For me this is a no, no. It's not the done thing, it's just not cricket.

Regards
Captain WH Rollins

 

[Ten33go]

As a final thought on this discussion, I think it's important to also "define" what hijacking is. I've noticed that a couple of the "Incidents" recently have involved a situation where someone starts a launch, but only puts minimal points in - Whether that's all they have, or they think they will come back at a later time and put more in. However, someone else may also see that particular launch, see that the points are not being put in actively, and decide they are helping out by adding and launching.

The above example is NOT a hijacking. The starter only puts in anywhere from 130 - 500 points and then stops. Other people see that, add points and possibly pass the person who joined and decided to only load so many points before stopping.

The above person would not be considered a hijacker, because the launch was active, no one was putting in points, the timer is running down and they launch it. That's fair game.

Now, on the other hand, if you start a launch, and put in half or over (As @Wasted Eagle pointed out), and someone comes in and dumps PEB's and MS and takes over first, That is a hijacking.

Whether it's posted or not. If you start a launch with minimal points and don't have enough fuel to finish it, you have to think that other people are going see that you're stuck, and immediately add points to help you not have a failed launch. Rescue assistance and hijacking are two different things as well.

 

[Deleted member 5399]

For me, I will often look after joining a forum member in a launch to see what their game plane is. That's if they posted the launch in forums. If they have 1500+ into it, I won't pass them.
As for 2nd and 3rd places, it doesn't matter because both get the same amount coins and experience.
And I most certainly enjoy making the launch return quicker by dropping a QL in. After all who wants to wait 24 hours for the rocket to come back? They/I might need that 20000/10000 coins to build something right away.
Anyhow with me personally, it's not a matter anymore of being in the weekly top 100. I've earned all my stars in launches. Now I just look to help others; forum or non forum members alike.

 

[RavenENTP]

Well if launch is active over 10h and there is only 1-2 players and added like um 200 points, i think you can go first , i wont go first because i dont have points and i dont join non forum launches . No stealing

 

[Wired Parrott]

Well I would say @Captain WH Rollins pretty much summed up my thoughts. It was
like reading point by point what I would have written.

The poll really should have had some other choice as I don't consider it a rule but
rather being a good neighbor. However if someone choose to play differently I would
not hold that against them.

 

[rocky]

I think that is very simple and we don't have to complicate it.

1. When a player starts his own launch alone, he just has to post on the thread what position he will take and how many points he will put (for the 1st in red, blue or green, he has to put 50% of the total of the points to have the 1st place) (logically you must have 100% points in your reserve cause it's not sure that other players will join you, you might be alone). IT IS JUST LOGICAL.

2. In the case of no. 1, you just have to respect the post on the thread and that's it.

3. If a player doesn't have enough points to take the first, it's not complicated, he just has to go in @Captain WH Rollins thread and he joins the group and their launches (this way, it avoids putting the other players in a bad situation...the only reason why a player is going to join other regular launches of 24 hours, is because he doesn't have himself enough points to do his own launches so you force the players who join to put a lot of points because of you !!!!!!).

4. Now, for a QL, it's simple too. When you join a QL launch, you never have to put more than 96 points except if the QL owner ask you to put more (you can ask to the QL owner, if you can put more points...That is respect... Any owner QL in any launch doesn't need any others to accelerate his launches...When a QL owner needs help, he asks in the thread for help).

5. When a QL joins a regular launch, don't be surprise if he takes 1st, 2nd or 3rd place (he will not take those places if the players have put the necessary points to secure their position)...He is helping. You will have only 2h23min. before landing instead of 24 hours. If you are not happy about that...you must drive a Rolls Royce or a Bentley actually (you all know what I mean). If you see a QL that join your launch somewhere, don't pretend that you are the QL owner and you think for him.

6. I think with those 5 points above, it's not very complicated to understand and I don't know why players don't understand the common sense.

P.S. I completely agree with @Ten33go and I'm very happy to launch with him and with players like him.

P.S. 2: BTW, just remember, if you do your own launches with no plan, don't imagine that the others do the same.

P.S. 3: If you want to do your way only, try to find other players that agree and create you own launch group like @Captain WH Rollins and @rocky did.

 

[Deleted member 5399]

I honestly commend several people for showing such respect toward a fellow play, neighbor and friend here in forums.
With only 500+ points to start with and finishing the shuttle launch with only 1000+, there are several who showed much respect, who easily could have taken first position; even 2nd and 3rd places, as !KB2 did not post the launch until completed, therefore not giving specific instructions for the launch.
I commend @uyetti @Rainer @!angel and @Bertje for giving !KB2 this respect.
Often I have seen people lead off with less than 50% of the needed points to complete the mission, however those listed above, and many others have shown myself and others such respect and not hijack someones mission.
Thank you once again.

 

[Rainer]

I honestly commend several people for showing such respect toward a fellow play, neighbor and friend here in forums.
With only 500+ points to start with and finishing the shuttle launch with only 1000+, there are several who showed much respect, who easily could have taken first position; even 2nd and 3rd places, as !KB2 did not post the launch until completed, therefore not giving specific instructions for the launch.
I commend @uyetti @Rainer @!angel and @Bertje for giving !KB2 this respect.
Often I have seen people lead off with less than 50% of the needed points to complete the mission, however those listed above, and many others have shown myself and others such respect and not hijack someones mission.
Thank you once again.

Ken I thank you very much for your words.

 

[gbswales]

Well it has been a good natured discussion and I think I have a good understanding of peoples thinking here - as I have said before I will always try to respect other people on here, as long as I can determine what their thinking/strategy is. For me the ideal would be Red flights with about 8 - 10 participants with first place attainable for much less than the 50% plus. That way everyone gets a high return for a minimum input - a QL on board is a bonus. I must admit I am puzzled as to how people accumulate as many point items as they do, to make regular flights taking 1st place. Maybe they are buying golden dice on a regular basis and using each one for two days. I use about one golden dice a week and only harvest airports with Planetariums (especially those with 4 or more) I also make the occasional purchase of PEBs from Dukes airship (I hardly ever get any of those after a harvest - maybe one or two a week) but even so I consider myself very lucky if I can take more than 1 first place a week. I haven't started to explore what to do with the maps I have collected because in most cases I don't have the right aircraft yet to fly the routes.

I am interested to see how this big launch day plan goes on the 28th (see the post by AgentL in the trading forum).

Anyway rest assured that I shall not deliberately (or hopefully even accidentally) hijack any of your flights but I will try to take some first places on my own flights with less than half the points, by getting as many people to join as possible - that just seems to be a competitive, if at times risky, strategy.

The discussion has answered all the questions I have and I am happy that the majority are in accord - I deliberately "lost" most of my non-forum neighbours a long time ago because of communication difficulty. If other people want to carry on the debate feel free - but I wont be posting any more to this thread

 

[Kesh]

I also make the occasional purchase of PEBs from Dukes airship (I hardly ever get any of those after a harvest - maybe one or two a week) but even so I consider myself very lucky if I can take more than 1 first place a week.

Small advice - never use greenies to purchase PEB - 1 cost 6 greenies,(let's assume that you buy 2) for that amount you can use golden dice 3 times - it is total of 6 time visit your friends - I can guarantee that you will get more PEBs this way. Use your fleet wisely - try to get tokens, use your flight items wisely - when adding larger points try to get some better place. Tokens will give you opportunity that one day you can invest them in greenie production building - after that it goes easier.

 

[Wasted Eagle]

Shhh, @Kesh ! Don't tell everyone my game plan...

 

[Kesh]

Shhh, @Kesh ! Don't tell everyone my game plan...

I won't

 

[gbswales]

Small advice - never use greenies to purchase PEB - 1 cost 6 greenies,(let's assume that you buy 2) for that amount you can use golden dice 3 times - it is total of 6 time visit your friends - I can guarantee that you will get more PEBs this way. Use your fleet wisely - try to get tokens, use your flight items wisely - when adding larger points try to get some better place. Tokens will give you opportunity that one day you can invest them in greenie production building - after that it goes easier.

actually I do use golden dice but while I do get a lot of large fuel tanks and a few Large transmitters I rarely see more than one PEB over two visiting cycles - last night I did get Two which was rare but the two visits yielded nearly 20 solid fuel which kind of balanced it out! I try to get 3-4 places and a couple of outside places 4-5, in red launches a week in order to keep my fuel supply flowing (I started monitoring it a month ago and have managed to maintain the same average daily balance since then, without it reducing at all. That way I don't have to depend on getting many fuel gifts as I would rather get other flight items) and my planes are never idle.

I am collecting as many gold/silver coins as possible. With my normal flights I tend to focus on one destination for each type of aircraft until it gets 3 stars and then move on to the next. I have almost finished my last Delta destination (two aircraft) But have a way to go with my 4 Powerful Delta's and have only just about completed two destinations - finishing off Las Vegas at the moment. I also have one Jumbo which is focussing on one destination. When the Delta's are completed I will sell them and replace with one more powerful delta and one more jumbo (I like to keep two types of aircraft to help stagger return times and give a little variety.)
I don't really know how good/bad this strategy is.

I havent touched any of the collected maps because I find I don.t have the right aircraft to be able to collect stars.

I have never managed to get a QL

 

[uyetti]

I highjacked 1 space flight (it was by accident) To the best of my knowledge that was the only time that I highjacked anything. But then I have been accused of other things on this forum, this is why I rarely post anything here anymore. It is normal for me to pick a color launch and then sit and wait for 1 to start and then add some points in order to hitch a ride. Sometimes a few points sometimes a lot. BUT I try not to take first place as that would be unfair. I don't know if this adds anything to this topic or not, but then I prefer gray socks anyway.

 

[cats are awesome]

Yes you can. The points mechanism doesn't work with a ceiling.

e.g. When you have first with a 'safe' 1600 in, I load up to 1398 and end with a 360 point PEB, I will pass your first and end up with 1758. Thus exceeding the 3000 point mark and hijacking your 'safe' launch as a result.

The points are always added in full and don't necessarily stop at the maximum of 1600, 2000 or 3000. Go figure...

Thank you @Wasted Eagle for explaining that. @Radu81 was trying to tell me that, but I didn't quite understand what he meant.